Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Discuss anything in general about the IceBlink Engine + Toolset project (or anything else) here.
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youngneil1
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Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

I am gonna use this thread to keep myself posting and in touch here, even with my thoughts trailing a bit away from IB right now.

So, driven by curiosity for the ray tracing tech and triggered by the arrival of a 3080rtx (thank you Jer for the congrats :) ) I dipped a toe into Ureal Engine (UE). I had used Unity for some developing excercise prior working on IB, now I wanted to see how I would cope with the other big engine.

UE is C++ (instead of C#), not too far away, but still lots of new stuff to learn from a coding perspective. To be honest though, I am much more using the Blueprint sytsem that comes with UE. Main reason in the beginning was that it allowed easier and commented, context sensitive access to all the existing prebuild functions. After some time with it I also appreciate the clarity that comes with this visual coding style. It's very easy to reorganize nodes and put them into comment tidy boxes. Like a kid playing with wooden building blocks :) .

Next up - what the hell is Pt0 about :lol: ?
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Pt0 - or in long form: Paths to Zero - is an action adventure game (3rd and first person) about finding your way to the center of a procedurally generated debris field with mixed elements of single- and multiplayer.

The field floats in utter blackness, illuminated by three orbiting lights of unknown origin bathing the field in shifting light and shadow. It stretches 200.000 km in x and y direction, being 20km high/thin all the time.

The player traverses the field alone and only on foot, supported by a limited energy jetpack. It is easy to drop towards death within the field as gravity is strong, pulling downward (which respawns the player in the multiplayer hub world). On his back a counter displays 999.999.999 at the start. This distance to the center in meters is counting down should the player move in the right direction.

No torch or flashlight is available which makes dark areas in the field very scary. The player can rotate the three orbiting lights though, controlling the flow of light and shadow. Furthermore, he carries two crystal cubes with him which emit light in a small area around them once thrown into the world. These act as beacons to throw into dark places. They also provide sense of scale as they fly along the abstract, sometimes gigantic elements that the field is made of.

To be continued...
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slowdive
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

Sound interesting! So will Unity not handle ray tracing anytime soon? Unity seems like the best engine to learn for those familiar with Java/C#. I guess learning c++ wouldn't be the worst thing, but the learning curve for memory handling seems step. I've thought about moving IB to Unity a few times, but I don't know anything about using Unity and I'm not sure that there would be a great benefit for IB.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

I think Unity will also (or maybe can already) handel ray tracing. Nvidia is doing special development branches for UE4 though (with with Nvidia exclusive RTX optimizations and also DLSS; one needs to register for DLSS access though and on first attempt this did not work out for me). Unity certainly is cool, cant go wrong there either.

Ah, I made a little video on Pt0, so you can get a better idea:

https://youtu.be/MBUIL97U4P0
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

I guess learning c++ wouldn't be the worst thing, but the learning curve for memory handling seems step
Yes, this would be a nightmare to manage by hand. Fortunately, UE4 has an inbuild system called "Reflection", which ia handles garbage collection (https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog ... dated=true). I do not know though how well it works in the end :lol:.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by Dorateen »

Looks pretty slick. The figure reminds me of a classic Star Wars stormtrooper, with the shiny white and black color scheme.
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slowdive
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

youngneil1 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:52 am Ah, I made a little video on Pt0, so you can get a better idea:

https://youtu.be/MBUIL97U4P0
That is so cool that you figured all of this out in Unreal engine. My kids and I watched the video and they were really impressed with the flying and throwing the green light cubes :lol: My daughter really wants to learn how to make games like this (she plays iPad games that are 3D and exploring worlds), but the steep learning curve is intimidating to her. I have her watch video tutorials on how to make simple games in Unity and how to make simple models in Blender. I reminder her it is a TON of work just to make something even very small :P
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Looks pretty slick. The figure reminds me of a classic Star Wars stormtrooper, with the shiny white and black color scheme.
Thank you, Dorateen. Hehe, absolutey, I am loving the stormrooper aesthetic. This one comes will Unreal Engine, it is the standard player character (pawn). The reflectiveness of the armor/suit fits perfectly to the ray tracing tech.
That is so cool that you figured all of this out in Unreal engine. My kids and I watched the video and they were really impressed with the flying and throwing the green light cubes :lol: My daughter really wants to learn how to make games like this (she plays iPad games that are 3D and exploring worlds), but the steep learning curve is intimidating to her. I have her watch video tutorials on how to make simple games in Unity and how to make simple models in Blender. I reminder her it is a TON of work just to make something even very small :P
Ah, compared how you set up IB from the ground, toying with UE4 is rather easy. As with most things, finding a way to begin, not getting overwhelmed and getting a first foothold is the most difficult part (well, so far). So, cool - many thanks to your children for the appreciation, Jer. Awesome that your daughter is looking into game development (I am watching lots of video tutorials right now, too). It is hard work for sure (I imagine especially if done for a living, with a boss and such :lol: ).

That said, follow your dreams rings very right to me.

Next little update:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql2ylrF ... e=youtu.be
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Just a little battle plan for next steps:

0. Shortcuts to remember: use ctrl-key down to to rewire nodes, press c for comments inside the blueprints, draw of output pins and select "make" option to turn them into variables (same as promote to variable?)

1. Is world position rebase still working correctly with the sublevel anchors (force rebase and see results)?
2. Add a rendertotext call to display our large scale world position over the head of the player character, maye also use rendertotext for info on spawners (level position, large scale world position); maybe diretcly use HUD
3. Could add a debug cube/shape for last spawn trigger and reabse trigger to actually see them
4. Build simple spawner actor (with no mesh of its own) to be used for every sublevel (this spawner will likely generate hierarchical instanced static meshes around him, created by an hierarchical instanced static mesh component inside the spawner); spawner's construction script allows us to see the results diretcly in the editor; use lods for the static meshes to increase performance even more, looks easy; exposing the variables of tge soawning algorithm allwos us real time experimentation in the edtior; pre-combine actor groups placed in a level into single static mesh pieces (group select them and press RMB, select turn into static mesh option then); pre make diffent instances for differnet color schemes as we can onky modify an ibstance's transform, but not the material; leave scale at 1.0, test if this is a must); manipulating arrays of HISM uses repalceAtLogic, moving the last element into the gap, careful here...
5. Populate world with these - rather boring at the beginning - spawners and debug, especially with an eye for performance (size of sublevels, streaming radius, alternative ways to create the cube meshes, maybe use an actor pool solution, etc.)
6. Create spalsh/intro screen (Pt0 for the win :) !)
7. Create main menu (Begin Play, Options, Quit for starters)
8. Enable entering a large scale world coordintae to spawn the palyer into the world at this location (likely asked for after gebin play button is pressed)
9. Think of interaction between nighbouring spawners: interaction like nueighbouring spawners influence chance for type of current soawner...

To be continued..
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

A bunch of templates for meshes (spawners) will be placed at a far edge if the level. These are actors with HISM Components. One of them is for sub level anchors.

The routines for initializing the 25x25x25 field of sublevel anchors reside currently in the player characters event graph. So do the routines for updating this field of sub level anchors after the player moved 1km.

The sub level anchor indices are kept in an array, ideally of structs. Such struct stores gridx, gridy and gridz of each sublevel anchor. It also holds a bolol for spawnSublevel.
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Array of Vectors: Vector gridx,y, z (indexed in parallel to hism)

SpawnRegister:-> Array of custom Struct: 1. Vector gridxyz, 2. spawnState

Flow:
1. Initial anchor build, spawning the hism anchors
2. In parallel intialize SpawnRegister, with transforms for each hism anchor, each spawnstate true
3. Inparallel build also array with vectors
4. After 1000m distance moved: Get nearest hism

wip
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slowdive
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

Have you needed to write any code snippets yet or is it all using visual code blocks? The videos are great and very helpful to see how things are working out and progressing. Keep them coming.
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Thank you, Jer :). So, far it's all done with the blueprint visual style of coding. It has proven quite comfortable, but depending on how fast the project needs to run or how far I have to dive into the engine, real coding is likely upcoming. Good thing is that c++ code can work alongside using the visual style.

New video here (really happy with how the the proc worldgen is developing, but the elephant in the room - the streaming - needs still to be tackled):

https://youtu.be/MZsLYPv0Qqk
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

A bit of brainstorming:

- Compare OLD nearest SubLevelAnchor x,y,z with NEW SubLevelAnchor x,y,z (<,>,==)
- 26 results possible (27 is no move, irrelevant in this context)
- these determine a) where to exchange HISM with Actor (moing towareds thsi diretcion) and a) where to exchange Actor with HISM (moving awaya from this direction)

- result will decide a) around which SLA to destroy all actor (clear sublevel) and b) what to spawn anew around these SLA (Actor or HISM, by setting the SpawnContentState proptery of the SLA to true and then the SpawnAsActors property of the resulting HISM Spawner to eitehr to true or false).


- maybe use this technique for the movment of outer rim of the HSIM cube, too, to optimize respawning of HISM
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Simpler:

Check around new center grid x,y,z with distance condition (maybe 1800 meter). All SLA found that are (stil)l set to spawn HISM have the actros/HISM spawned 500 Meters aorund them remoived and are set spawn (new, real) actors.

SEcodn check aroudn new centerBetween 1800 und 3000 Meter. Any All SLA found that are (stil) set to spawn (real) actors have the actros spawned 500 Meters arund them remoived and are set spawn HISM instead.

Seeding: Each SLA (and its HISM Spawner) have a unique seed to use for its stream of random numbers (used during proc gen for this sublevel)Seed is computed from teh gridx,y,z coordinates of SLa/HISM spawner. Problem: negative coordintes, hash building.
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Running into stall problems with this approach for streaming. It is odd as loading the much larger whole grid works great at game start.

Ideas:
- limit destroy and respawn operations per tick, spread them out across several ticks
- use alternative to get all objects of class, like adding to separate array on creation
- implement actor pool solution
- switch to world composition or streaming levels, problem: generate the level procedurally prior streaming it in, theoretically each cube can a level/layer but I doubt this will be more efficient
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Another one to try: place the destruction logic into actor itself, measuring its distance to centrr and sekf destruct (if that is possible at all) based on distance

Crazy thought: What if actors would procdurally spawn their neighbours? A running cascade of self replicating actors reading spawn instruction from central spawner.

Adjust frequency of tick event (details).

Spwaner might caary an array of structs (transform, mesh, material).

Same for HISM actors.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Note to self:

Each HISMSpawner (72 in worst case for field with radius 4) will spawn its content (HISM or true actor) one piece per tickevent of the correspondent HISMSpawner. An index on the HISMSpawner will remember the position reached last tick (construction progress index). With 5 meter/s max speed of player and 1.000 meter stream triggers interval, we have 200 seconds (memo: kill falling player after certain drop distance, even withotu touch dwon). For saftey lets use 180 seconds. With target frame rate of 60fps, we would 180x60 ticks = 10.800 objects per HISMSapwner. As frame rate will fluctuate lets work with 45 frames on average, will bring this down to 8.100 objects. With these high numbers I think the limit will not be the streaming speed but rendering power per frame. For fun, with such approach I could try a 20x20x20 generation matrix (will be too slow, but still).

This apporach might allwo for background streaming - oh,well, or more backgroud hitching :lol: .
youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Do "set TickEnabled" to false on the HISMSpawenr in question after construcion index has reached its limit to save overhead.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

I am giving up on smooth streaming for now, there will be a 10 to 20 sec loading pause once in a while while streamig in a new part of the world.

Still, lots of progress made on world generation :) :

https://youtu.be/ZNjtcsCU_Us
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Streaming pause down to 8 to 12 seconds, every 10 minutes of gameplay (or so :lol: ). This is not classic level loading, but just streaming in more stuff in far distance, updating shadows more nearby and forgetting stuff in the opposite far distance. Load game time for inital spawn is about 25 secs.

There is a toal of 1311 sublevels (1km*1km*1km) visible at any time on screen. They are sorted in a big cube pattern of 11x11x11 chunks (11km * 11 *km * 11km), with the player always at the middle of the bigcube (after streaming and level shifting). View range is therefore 5.5 km in every direction, including up and down.

The 11km*11km*11km big cube is itself on a tiny fraction of the whole game world, which consists actually of about 10.000*10.000*2 = 200 Mio. of these big cubes. The position of each sublevel in this superstructure is used for filling it procedurally (seed based) with content.

Each sublevel (1*1*1) holds 512 actors (which is quite sparse, so many actors will be scaled rather big for floors, high walls and connections to neighbouring sublevels).

Full shadow detail in about 2.0 km around player. Afterwards HISM instead of full actors (exchanged with full actors during streaming).

Frame rate at 1440p is between 50 to 70 FPS on an AMD 3900 with a 3080 RTX card, raytracing all on (inlcuding GI, Shadows, Reflections and AO, just without transluceny).

This is the framework in which I will now try to hammer more details in, let's see :D ...
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

That's a great FPS for the number of actors and full raytracing. Now the fun begins, right? :D Bring on the star destroyers.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Yep, the fun is about to begin indeed :D ! I will need your math skills for geometries in sublevels later on, so get ready for my stupid questions :lol: . When a few basic geometries work, I will add a first enemy type (I got a little UFO from a unreal marketplaceplace AI apackage running already). This will increase fun again, for sure :mrgreen: .

This video here is a bit longer and explains inter alia where the project might be headed when it comes to multiplayer:

https://youtu.be/9a5zhA5QsAA
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Video up now, had forgtotten actually publish it :oops: :lol: .
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

A HISMSpawner (on foreach sublevel) has three random streams set up (x,y,z) which are seeded with x,y and z grid positions of this sublevel in the surperstructure respectively (ranging from 0 to 200.000.000). We need three streams because of the int size limit and the size of the superstructure.

These streams are reset when the HISMSpawner spawns its content anew, ie exchanges HSIM against actors and vice versa (or is destroyed and recreated, but this happens anyway then). Combined random rolls against all the three used for determinig each state: like eg draw 0 to 33 from x,y, z stream respectively, add togetther and compare with the required roll height for determining state.

In order to have sublevels form a greater, cohesive whole each level (20x20x20 sublevels) will get its own stream, seeded with the combined level gridx,y of the level in the superstruture (ranging from 1 to 10.000 for x,y; forming a unique seed number like 99989997 for x9998 and y9997.

As the player will see from level to level, we will need to have 9 streams for levels (cube around player) active all the time. The 9 streams get stored on player character for now. Once the player enters a new level, the group of stroed seeds will be updated (some added new, some forgotten).

The level seeds are used to generate region information in the respective level, which will group clusters of sublevels and have them have a fitting type and spatial position to form landscape elements than span more than one sublevel, like mabe a 4.000m high mountain range. The sublevel connection will also defined for the level.

The outermost sublevels of each level are special case sublevels as they need to to have a good chance to allow a transition to the outer most sublevels of the respective neighbouring level.

There will also be loot and spawn enemy tables that are influenced by the danger level of a sublevel (which depends on distance to centr of the superstructure). Same goes for environmental hazards (like maybe gas clouds, energy draining fields, movement slowing fields, low visisbilty fields, only 2 or even 1 sun level, etc.).

Seals can be used to block ways to loot (with keys to open seals being carried eg by special enemies). Seals will also block level to level transition, requiring to find at least one specific key in the level to progress out of it.

Btw, I wonder if we could have some kind of abstract weather, using particle effects.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

latest video is great with all the mirroring and the streaming in new content is not too long. Maybe having a message of "Loading..." with some spinner or slowly adding more periods after "Loading....." will let the user know that the game hasn't froze. The multiplayer features and trading/selling paths sound like fun too... a whole year to make it to the center, wow :lol:
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Hey dear IBlers,

I have dropped out again for much too long. I am very sorry for that. I always feel a bit of guilt when looking at the forum because I have yet not closed this cycle (as in led IB to a point where I think it will be able to float on its own). I know this is unwarranted and you guys are really great and releaxed, so I am just silly (but cannot help it from time to time :oops: ).

I have not the mental capacity and time in real life to support two game development projects at the same time unfortunately. And right now I am more into the Unreal project here. But then again this can change - and also both projects are very different in nature (and reflect my different preferences when it comes to games). The difference between the projects in a good thing because the Pt0 (Unreal) is in no way a replacement for IB. It just scratches a different itch for me.

So, how is Pt0 doing? At least I was not lazy in this regard. To be realistic it will be hard to push through with this over-the-top idea, so in all likelyhood this is more a training ground for me when it comes to learning the Unreal Engine (and generally improving in game design, which at the very end might feed even back to IB as diffent as it is).

Enough words, time for pictures :) :

Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYLnF6iAkVw

Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-YLYxlDCec
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by Dorateen »

Those look like some neat effects, youngneil1
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

Loving the atmosphere! The music and sound effects really add a lot to the overall feel of the dark and eerie world... and the rain too! I like the thrown blocks adding stepping stones to walls in order to move around the procedurally generated world when needed. I also like the "built-in" UI elements of health and flying timer. The critters are scary and creepy, but cool too. I thought the sound effect was great for the laser like projectiles. Was a cool 80s/90s gaming type sound effect. You do a great job narrating the videos and it is great to hear your voice :D
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by Pongo »

Impressive stuff! Interesting aesthetics as well - the spider robot things are nicely done. Look forward to seeing where you take it.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Hey, Phil, good to read you! Yeah, I wonder, too, where it will take take me :lol: . It is fun while working on it and I learn a lot of new stuff (big question is though whether I learn faster than I forget, which I doubt :roll: ).
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

So, very slomo here.

I am currently trying to learn the animations system of Unreal a bit better (this will be direly needed for eg implementing hit feedback for enemies hit by shots). Furthermore, I have integrated a new plugin that allows for basic dialogue and onscreen object descriptions.

The later ties into my current vision where Pt0 actually might take place (besides just being a very large, very abstract space). Last shower idea was that the player(s) explores a dead/malfunctioning AI chip (via neuronal interface, very likely getting trapped inside the AI chip, eventually with other players in the same situation, too; might be a volunteer program with a sinister background or something even more evil). The AI has either not developed full conscience yet or maybe lost its marbles, but either way there are fragments of what it once was or intended to become already/still present. This could could be material fed to the AI with which it was supposed to develop its personality and knowledge about the real world. Or it is one step further and the player encounters the dreams of the AI created while forming/losing its conscience.

These fragments manifest themselves via objects with text descriptions as well as NPC with dialogue inside this abstract space (which I like to call The Abstrabyss). Thing with these objects and NPC is that they are not fully formed. They, too, look like the abtract shapes around them (an old, crooked tree might just be a white pillar, an air ship a large gray plane, a beggar a moving black cube, etc.). But the texts describing them as well as their dialogue are much more tangible and are in stark contrast to what is seen on screen. I hope that this creates an eery disconnect, especially as the NPC will (mostly^^) not be awere of their true state, acting in the context of the described surroundings and under the impression to be real persons. These NPC/scenarios might be a wild mix of times and places. Wonder if this will work out and where it will lead...
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

The setting idea sounds great so far. When you have a playable multiplayer version ready, we should run through it together :D

Have you played "Grounded" by Obsidian (it uses Unreal too)? We should really try and put an IB group together to run some sessions in the "backyard". It is still in early release and I think you can buy it through Steam or Microsoft store or play for free if you have Xbox Game Pass for PC.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Ha, multiplayer is far away (if ever, also it would likely be a "meet in the hub", "exchange paths to points of interest in the Abstrabyss via auction house" and maybe even "decorate little piece of real estate around a central square with trophies from your journeys" type of multiplayer rather than exploring the Abstrabyss itself together). But yes, it would be awesome to share that experience as early as possible.

I have not tried "Grounded" so far, but it looks intruiging. Having a gaming group set up with our regulars here is a fantastic idea - count me in :). Of course, finding a fitting time slot will be a challenge across time zones and with scoial/job responsibilities looming on the left and right, but it's worth a shot for sure :) .
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by youngneil1 »

Another good coop game would actually be Valheim. It has a great dark/nordish fantasy vibe to it and is exploration heavy. I played it like for 2 hours singe player a few weeks ago and quite liked. For long term motivation though it is clearly build around the idea of a group of friends playing together :) .
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

youngneil1 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 9:48 am Having a gaming group set up with our regulars here is a fantastic idea - count me in :). Of course, finding a fitting time slot will be a challenge across time zones and with scoial/job responsibilities looming on the left and right, but it's worth a shot for sure :) .
I'm pretty flexible with schedule so whatever works best for others. I can propose a few time slots and see if any work for others. I haven't heard of Valheim so I'll need to check that out.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by Pongo »

Hey good idea! I'm a bit unreliable at the minute due to the young kids, but I'd be up for giving it a go. Haven't played either of those games.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by slowdive »

I would suggest we try for a one hour period and players can come and go during that time as needed. Grounded (by Obsidian) works well for dropping in and out. It is pre-release so may be buggy other than the intentional bugs in the backyard. My xbox tag is SlowdiveFan. You can sign up for $1 for one month of Xbox game pass for PC and try our Grounded.

I'll propose any of the following times:

All times in UTC (-07:00 AZ time)
Saturday or Sunday 14:00 (07:00 AZ time)
Saturday or Sunday 16:00 (09:00 AZ time)
Saturday or Sunday 20:00 (13:00 AZ time)
Saturday or Sunday 22:00 (15:00 AZ time)

Whatever time works best for most, I'll be in game during that time and if you are able, drop in.
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Re: Unreal Engine Side Project: Pt0

Post by Pongo »

Saturday 26th at 22.00 would be good for me, kids should be asleep and my wife is away! So that should be perfect.

Could probably make other times as well if they're better for others.
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