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IceBlinkEngine.com • View topic - Default Rule System

Default Rule System

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Re: Default Rule System

Postby Lurking Grue » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:52 am

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Re: Default Rule System

Postby Lurking Grue » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:39 am

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Re: Default Rule System

Postby youngneil1 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:33 pm

Updated stat ideas based on Grue's excellent input:

STR:
- damage bonus for melee weapons
- damage bonus to thrown weapons (and other ranged weapons where muscle power directy translates into velocity)
- attribute requirement for ranged weapons that require a certain strength to use them the first place (e.g. bows or crossbows, with the caveat that for crossbows it's about reloading which in turn is a crucial part of weapon operation though)
- certain further weapons and armors might have a STR requirement to actually be able to use them (for each STR point under the requirement, one point of the regular armor's sill penalty will be transformed into a 1 point attack malus)
- certain traits might have a STR requirement
- (only) half strength bonus for melee weapon to hit bonus
- weight carry limits for systems that have individual inventories
- chance to bash in doors or chests, if those should be flagged to allow such brute force approach for opening

DEX:
- to hit bonus with all ranged weapons
- half dex bonus for melee weapon to hit bonus
- armor class
- initiative bonus (not directly the usual bonus itself, but more something like using the actual value of the attribute; note: IB right now has some varied system here)
- bonus to REF (=reflex) saving throws
- certain traits might have a DEX requirement

CON:
- bonus to HP per level (with option of having higher hit points at level one, which is already in IB; also option to roll for HP on each level up with a range of 50% to 100% of the HP range of that class + CON bonus)
- (half) con bonus for SP per level (idea: SP representing Stamina Points, required for casting as well as use of other strenuous traits; all classes have SP per level definable, so one could set them all equal and take care of SP progression by reducing SP costs of spells and other active traits by assigning SP cost recuing class traits for e.g. casting or certain physical actions)
- bonus to FORT (=fortitude) saving throws
- certain traits might have a CON requirement

INT:
- bonus to Skill points per level
- bonus to Spell learning points per level (is such are used at all by an author; viable alternatives are automatic assignment of spells on level up or training via scrolls/masters, including min. INT scores, min. levels or certain feats)
- certain traits might have a INT requirement
- bonus for damaging and healing spells for classes that use INT as main attribute for casting (typically wizards)
- to hit bonus for spells which should require an attack roll (think: targeted rays; note only certain spells will require such additional attack rolls; most spells will hit automatically; of course many spells will still allow saving throws of various kinds)

WIS:
- (half) bonus to SP per Level (idea: SP representing Stamina Points, required for casting as well as use of other strenuous traits)
- bonus to WILL (=willpower) saving throws
- certain traits might have a WIS requirement
- bonus for damaging and healing spells for classes that use WIS as main attribute for casting (typically clerics)

CHA:
- certain traits might have a CHA requirement
- at least the option to actually factor in the average conversation ability of the party or in some situations even the worst
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Re: Default Rule System

Postby Lurking Grue » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:49 pm

Let's get back to this. (Or is there any interest?)

After attributes, the logical thing would be to move to character classes, followed by skills and feats. But after thinking about this a moment, I came to the conclusion, that these are all things that will vary heavily depending on the module. Therefore, as such, there's not much sense to go very deep into detail on them. What might be sensible, would be to have the basic framework for classes, skills and feats designed/written down so the pieces are there from which the author will build these for his/her module. In addition, it would be good to have a few examples to go with "vanilla" IB, to show the new authors how it's done. (I'm a big proponent of examples. More often than not, it's the example which teaches something to you better than the actual rule as written.)

Character Class

So, what do we need to have as building blocks of a character class (of any genre). Looking at the OGL/d20 classes, they list Alignment, Hit Die, Class Skills, Skill Points at 1st level and at subsequent levels, Class Features (Weapon and Armor Proficiencies, spell casting capability, and other features, like Bardic Knowledge for Bards, etc.), and BAB & Saves progression table (incl. extra Feats).

* Alignment: Of all the things mentioned above, I think the easiest is Alignment, as we can probably ignore Alignment completely. Or what do you think? I can't recall Jer saying much about having Alignment in IB. I, for one, wouldn't want it in base IB, but could work around it if everyone else wants it in and it is to be implemented. I'd guess scripting the Alignment in, if it isn't included in base IB, should't be too much of a hassle. Anyway, what do think? Alignment - yay or nay?

* Hit Die (i.e. HP tally): Hmm, HD is a bit problematic, as even between the few of us, we have widely differing ideas how damage and HP should work. Which is all OK, of course, but complicates "standardizing" things as, for example, I'm strictly against regenerating HP and leery of HP bloat, but Karl (AFAIK) is for regenerating HP and has (IIRC) pretty high HP values in his module. Now, neither of us is right or wrong, both are equally valid ways of implementing HP in a CRPG and IB ought to accomodate us both, IMHO, in addition to accomodating other different ideas too. Thus the HD value needs to be a highly variable and customizable attribute. Something that can handle multiple dice and modifiers with ease, so e.g., 1d4+1, 2d6+3, 5d8-2, 2d6+CON modifier+3 or STR+CON+1d10 wouldn't be a problem, should an author choose so.

In addition to starting HP, another attribute would be needed for level up HP gain. Not everyone wants HP to increase on each level up the same amount (or at all) as rolled for the 1st level. For example, I'd like to keep HP values pretty low and have level up HP gain be very modest, but have the starting HP value be higher than base d20 has.

Darn, it seems I'm running out of time (again) and have to split. Sorry. I'll continue this later. But feel free to comment and critique in the meantime as much as you like.
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Re: Default Rule System

Postby slowdive » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:47 pm

Quick reply, in not a big fan of alignment ( roleplay how you want... I don't need to babysit you by adjusting your alignment if you do something I think is out of character). Alignment could be easily scripted though through localints or localobjects (as well as factions too).

HD will need to be setup in such a way to allow more custom choices, definitely.
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Re: Default Rule System

Postby youngneil1 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:13 am

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Re: Default Rule System

Postby Lurking Grue » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:40 am

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Re: Default Rule System

Postby youngneil1 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:00 am

The option to rename attribute sounds great to me, too. Like already possible for e.g. gold/funds. A label for attributes. Of course, the full monty of allowing to customly assign effects to attributes would still be the coolest thing.

Also, good ideas for further usage of a third row with points on the portraits. Chi, Mana, Shield points... great! Perhaps somebody will do a horror adventure and have something like Mental Stability there :twisted:

Concerning implementation of BAB, saving throws, etc. I could imagine that having a simple points per level adder for Saves like for BAB (e.g. 0.75) would be easier than a table (but that's really minor as it's a one time only work to fill out the table).

The option to randomly roll attribues is of course welcome. I would - again - likely not use it, but hey, I see a lot of people having fun with it. What I would appreciate is some option to define how much attribute points a further increase of an attribute costs (so that it gets more expensive to buy the real high attribute values). Also theoption to define min. and max. values under/over which attributes cannot be raised/lowered on character creation (plus racial effects, of course) as well as the option to assign on which level how many new attribute points are granted (see above already).
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Re: Default Rule System

Postby Dorateen » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:40 pm

I'm in a Might & Magic mood with the impending release of MMX. One of the things I liked about the 3 - 5 installments was that different ranges in attributes had little descriptions. So a Might of 50, or something like that, was labeled "Fantastic". They also had things like "Superior" and "Ultimate" or whatever, as the score increased. I think this was viewable when you clicked on the attribute button in the character screen.

I'm not suggesting this be implemented for the IceBlink engine. But all this talk about attributes remined me of that, heh.
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Re: Default Rule System

Postby Lurking Grue » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:08 pm

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